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00:00:02 Speaker 1
The Institute of Internal Auditors presents all things internal audit. Internal audit is a relationship business. In this episode, Mike Levy sits down with Stacy Lynch to explore how authentic connections, whether through mentorship, volunteerism, or daily work, can elevate your career, improve audit outcomes.
00:00:20 Speaker 1
And expand your professional network.
00:00:24 Speaker 2
Hi everybody, welcome to the All Things Internal Audit podcast. My name is Mike Levy and we're here today to talk about beyond business cards making real connections and internal audit. Stacy, thanks for joining us, which might introducing yourself and just telling us a little.
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Bit about your background.
00:00:36 Speaker 3
Yeah. So thanks for having me and thanks for everybody at home listening. Yeah. So, Stacy Lynch, I I've worked at the city of Phoenix. I've been in the audit department for almost 19 years. So only department have ever worked at. So once you go into audit, you never leave. But I have had experience in the over the last.
00:00:56 Speaker 3
10 years of doing audits with them and then I got into leadership and now I help with the team of staff who do all the IT audits for the city of Phoenix. So 5th largest city. We have a lot of work to do when I'm not auditing and supervising staff, I am volunteering with the IA.
00:01:16 Speaker 3
In many different fashions. I'm on the Chapter relations committee as the district representative for South to.
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You and I love that work. I love the team. I get to work with, and more recently I've started facilitating for the IA, so I'm very excited about that new role.
00:01:30 Speaker 2
That's really exciting. I. Yeah, I know we've we've talked about this on other podcasts, but volunteering and network building and it's I always say you get what you put in to the to this association. And I think those that put more effort into the volunteerism, I think there's a lot to drive out of that in terms of value and relationships and the network that you build and and what you learn from it, you can bring back to your companies as well.
00:01:50 Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm very grateful. My employer supports this and they see the value of what I'm getting. I mean, I'm at a different point in my life. My kids are.
00:01:58 Speaker 3
Grown so I'm able to do a little bit more, but even when I was, you know, still had kids at home and going to soccer practice, you just kind of balance it out. But you have to put in that effort because there is a benefit.
00:02:10 Speaker 3
To your career.
00:02:10 Speaker 2
In the long run, so with that, when we think about relationship building within the internal audit function and what that means, I've heard a lot of different things from practitioners.
00:02:18 Speaker 2
They talk to them, hear you hear some that's, you know, from the most extreme, which is, you know, we have to have maintain independence and objectivity. We shouldn't have relationships with anybody. We just need to.
00:02:27 Speaker 2
Audit write our reports and make sure that they get get the get the topics done and the exceptions closed and then I've seen the other end of the spectrum which is more where I align to which is it's a relationship business we're trying to drive change within our organizations and part of how you do that is by developing relationship so that you can have more influence. Can you talk to us a little bit about what your experiences have been around that and maybe where you've been successful or where you've seen other?
00:02:49 Speaker 2
Opportunities for.
00:02:50 Speaker 3
Improvement. Yeah, absolutely. As an internal auditor, you're working with the people you're auditing every day. You're seeing them in the break room. You're passing them in the hall. You know, you may be riding public transit.
00:03:01 Speaker 3
With them and how can you not go and spend 40 hours in an office? Or maybe 40 hours virtually working with people and not build relationships? So I do respect and understand that yes, we have to be independent and that's where, you know, I have personally tried to make that aware I've more recently.
00:03:21 Speaker 3
And my staff was going to do an audit of a grant that they have at the city of Phoenix. And then I realized 1/3 of the way into the project that somebody I knew was closely tied to that group.
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Immediately just said, hey, I can give this person 20 recommendations and they'll take them. And I knew that they would be professional about it too, but it's that appearance of and I didn't want that to be a question of the quality of the work that we were doing. So acknowledging that. But where I really find is having those relationships with people.
00:03:52 Speaker 3
It makes my job easier because one they see me as a human, they're like, oh, Stacy has a blony sound sometimes for lunch, too. And, you know, it's friendly. So if there is value of it, but you just have to always have that in their forefront, you don't want the appearance of something being.
00:04:09 Speaker 3
You know, that would question are the results of the audit.
00:04:11 Speaker 2
Sure. Yeah, I I've always found that when you when you have a difficult observation or something, yeah. And and and I do want to talk about relationships around professional development and growth too. But when you think about it in terms of the audit and you have a difficult observation, I think the way that management responds and reacts to that sometimes is an emotional response and.
00:04:30 Speaker 2
Think.
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You can tamper that and drive better change if you have a strong relationship with that with that owner and you know. So when you think about some of without going into anything that you can't talk about in public. But when you think about some of the audits that you've done in the past and where they might have been controversial, do you use your relationships with people to help drive the effective change within the organization?
00:04:52 Speaker 2
That does that sometimes help from your.
00:04:53 Speaker 3
Perspective. Yeah, I the thing that I've used in my relationship building with people and networking with them. When I got into IT auditing, I mean, I didn't know the difference between a server and a router, but I needed to learn and.
00:05:06 Speaker 3
You know, building relationships with people in our organization to help teach me, and once they saw that I valued and respected the information that they were giving later when I would come back to do audits and they were like, not agreeing with the finding that I said that they weren't, you know, doing something that according to policy, I had earned that respect from them.
00:05:26 Speaker 3
And so although it wasn't necessarily a networking in the sense of like, oh, let's go get, you know, get drinks after work or something.
00:05:33 Speaker 3
Like that it's networking with them to understand the work that they do and then they know that the results I'm providing them are accurate. They may not like it because maybe they're going to get in, you know.
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They know who you are as a professional.
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At the end.
00:05:47 Speaker 2
Of the day, right, I always think of that in terms of when we have a difficult report because so much of what we do, if you take a step back and yes, we talk about our standards and we talk about independence, we talk about objectivity. But so much of what we're doing, if you think.
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What it is we're trying to be arbiters and shine. Shine a light on issues within our organization. But if you talk to our a lot of our boards and audit committees in terms of what they're desiring, it's they want us to help drive that positive change for it. And yes, we're not owning the controls and we should not own anything. We have to have that third line assurance function in a lot of what we do. But really if we can help influence change.
00:06:19 Speaker 2
We're helping to accomplish the company's mission and to your to everything you just said. I think some of those relationships.
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Help.
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To drive drive forward that influence.
00:06:27 Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and I, I, I want the product to represent what's actually happening and I think a lot of people think about audit and they think, oh.
00:06:35 Speaker 3
Audit recommendations, negative findings, and I tell my staff I want to know what they're doing good and I want to know what they're not doing good. It needs to represent the full picture. And so I think that's where it when we're building relationships with our, you know, audit clients or auditees, whatever the, you know, phrases you want to refer to them, it's showing them that respect that you're going to give the true story of what's happening.
00:06:56 Speaker 3
Good and bad, yeah.
00:06:58 Speaker 2
So we talked to her at the beginning of our conversation. We talked about the value of volunteerism and some of the and, you know, and at as someone just like you, that has been a volunteer for their entire professional life. I, you know, I feel the connections I I feel like I have developed some deep personal friendships, but also most importantly.
00:07:14 Speaker 2
I have a I feel that I have a really strong network of practitioners that are doing the same thing I do and you have a you have a group of people that you can call. So if you're, you know, if you think about someone, whether they're a new internal auditor or someone that's more experienced in their career, what do you think internal is gained from joining something like a local chapter or volunteering? And if someone on the fence of trying to join or why would they want to join?
00:07:33 Speaker 2
Maybe give give the elevator pitch as to why? Why that's been valuable to you in.
00:07:37 Speaker 3
Your career. Yeah, I think you get from an organization what you put into it.
00:07:43 Speaker 3
But you need to figure it out what it is that you want from that organization and and it's that reciprocal effort. So for me, I know I would not be in this seat today talking to you if I hadn't volunteered with the IA. And if I hadn't made networking connections. You know, the person who got me into my local chapter in Phoenix.
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Was somebody I met at.
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And association of local government auditors conference and you build that relationship and you're like, oh, we have this in common and then just go from there and to see that how my volunteer efforts have helped me build and networks to not just, oh, how can I get promoted and get the next big fancy job. It's. Hey, I'm doing an audit.
00:08:26 Speaker 3
On cyber security or I'm doing an audit in this area and I know nothing about it. But you know what? I was at this IA chapter meeting and I ran into.
00:08:34 Speaker 3
Dave and he, he's done that work before and I can pick up the phone and call him and brainstorm and just those little benefits. But somebody new coming into the field. It's just, you know, finding those connections with people that are going to help and support you as we move through our careers is it's, you know, what not necessarily.
00:08:55 Speaker 3
A mentor per say, but just those connections. It just makes it easier for us.
00:08:59 Speaker 2
I always think of it as, you know, I I think when I first started my career, I wanted.
00:09:03 Speaker 2
They playbook or road map of here. What are the? What are the 10 steps I need to do to have this strong network of people? And if I've learned one thing over the years similar to what you're describing, I think you have to be authentic and intentional in those connections, but I think you don't necessarily need a playbook or road map because what ends up happening over time as you go to the go to some of these events, you're meeting people when you get introduced to others.
00:09:23 Speaker 2
You start seeing faces that you recognize, and then all of a sudden someone that you say hi to the in the halls to at conferences over 2 years in that third year, you end up having a conversation with them and then that sort of blossoms into some kind of relationship that you have with that.
00:09:37 Speaker 2
With your roles at the IAA and what you've done at more of the you know at the at the HQ level or at the local chapter level, sometimes I similar to my experiences, I'm sure you have a network of people that are in a lot of different geographies between remote work and hybrid and someone that lives across the country. Do you have any strategies or how?
00:09:56 Speaker 2
How do you maintain those connections or relationships over time? Because sometimes sometimes that is hard to do when you don't see someone every.
00:10:02 Speaker 2
Day.
00:10:02 Speaker 2
Or not getting it, getting lunch with them or things like that.
00:10:05 Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean it, it's there's a level of you have to be purposeful about.
00:10:09 Speaker 3
About it and maybe you're going to be a strategic as you know, let's set up a quarterly teams call and let's just get on there and chat for 1015 minutes. What he got going on, maybe it's you know, following them on LinkedIn and engaging with them there. You see they're posting something about a new standard that's come out and you can comment with them. So there has to be a purposeful intent.
00:10:30 Speaker 3
And then also not just when reaching out to those individuals when you need something, it's being available when they need something as well too. So in this, you know, hybrid environment, you know trying to schedule maybe a call or just hey send him a quick e-mail how you doing, just want to check in you know one of my former coworkers now lives in Cincinnati.
00:10:51 Speaker 3
You know we can't go and meet at Starbucks, but every now and then send them an e-mail and see how they're doing.
00:10:56 Speaker 3
But using social media to follow and stay up to speed on what's going on in people's lives makes it a lot easier.
00:11:03 Speaker 2
Yeah. Have you seen any mistakes people deploy with that especially you know where the networking mistakes where you're sitting there saying that that didn't feel intentional or authentic or you know what are some things that people you've seen people do that maybe they could do?
00:11:15 Speaker 3
Better avoid. I think sometimes they only take from the individuals and versus trying to get back to them as well.
00:11:23 Speaker 3
Too, and I think sometimes then networking, you know they try to cross into an area that steps outside of the professional.
00:11:33 Speaker 3
You know, maybe they start talking about politics and that can really sour or maybe something on a personal level. So you know, if it's one thing you know, like you said, you have friends that you've built over the years and that happens, you know, sometimes just organically. But just knowing that, you know, this is a professional thing we're doing and, you know.
00:11:54 Speaker 3
Not crossing the line necessarily because I have seen where somebody has done something and then it does come back and we all unfortunately remember some of our worst mistakes.
00:12:03 Speaker 2
Oh yeah. I mean I I have seen unfortunately seen that more than more than a few times. The other thing I've seen once in a while is to your point about it being A1 sided relationship only reaching out when you have an ask I think is sometimes a mistake and I think making sure that if it's someone that you truly value and you value the relationship to your point just you and you said it really well earlier. Just checking in on them and seeing how things are going and just making sure that.
00:12:23 Speaker 2
Every time you talk to them, you're not asking them for something, because then it does feel.
00:12:26 Speaker 2
Transactional rather than an actual relationship with the one.
00:12:28 Speaker 3
Exactly. Yeah. It's just like with our own personal relationships.
00:12:32 Speaker 2
When you think about industry trends and you know?
00:12:35 Speaker 2
You mentioned Alga, the associated government auditors earlier and some of the other things you've done within from a district representative perspective and some of the IA experiences like how do you, how have you used your network to stay abreast of industry trends and learn, learn more or leverage the those connections to kind of help help you in, in, in, inside the industry?
00:12:54 Speaker 3
That's the foundation for me. I work in an office that we don't follow the ISO standards. We follow the yellow book stand.
00:13:02 Speaker 3
But as a district representative, I need to understand the standards that I is putting out there. So being able to reach out to my counterpart in another district or another chapter to be like, hey, this new standards coming out, we don't have it in the standards I'm doing on day-to-day and just kind of sharing those ideas and having those conversations.
00:13:23 Speaker 3
You know, that's to me is the biggest thing, but then when you get.
00:13:26 Speaker 3
On the you know the IT route, I mean that's where my network really has come into play for me. So I can talk to somebody about, you know, technology they're using. How did you audit this area or you know, hey, there's this new, you know, standard that's coming out related to cyber security, you know, what are your thoughts on it? Sometimes it's just hey.
00:13:46 Speaker 3
Did you read the new technical guidance that came out? What did you think of it? And just having that like, you know, coffee conversation about it, yeah.
00:13:53 Speaker 2
I mean first hand similar to what you're describing. I mean I was before I went out on my own, I was a chief auditor for a large transportation company in New Jersey and I can't tell you how many times there are folks that I met through the IA.
00:14:05 Speaker 2
That were chief auditors in similar organizations, and it was so helpful that anytime we had some kind of issue. So for example, in our industry shortage of employees and drive the driver shortage, we would talk about and what we were doing around some of the risk topics and audits that we were focusing on. I had other chief audit executives that were in very similar spaces, whether they were in transit or land transportation or air transportation, we would have.
00:14:26 Speaker 2
Basically like these many informal roundtable kind of discussions and talk about all the different things we were facing. And it was extraordinarily valuable because even when you talk to your company, you could say, oh, and I also, you know, I talked to these other individuals without naming them by name.
00:14:40 Speaker 2
Name and it gave you a little bit of more credence to what you were doing as well. So I always found.
00:14:44 Speaker 3
That really valuable personally too. Yeah, it's. And it's a way to continue to learn about our industry and and the different areas for sure.
00:14:52 Speaker 2
Before we started recording, we were talking about artificial intelligence and the the augment of generative AI. And yeah, when we think about the future of networking and you know, I can think of some, I use cases specifically, but where do you see this going? Because we're sitting in this very interesting time in our professions history where we have new standards that have come out. We have the augment of AI.
00:15:12 Speaker 2
Of generative AI, which is transformationally changing our.
00:15:15 Speaker 2
History. And then we have a mix of people that are in person five days a week, hybrid or remote. Where do you think networking and some of these relationship developments go when instead of calling your peers, you know, maybe the next iteration of a generative AI till you're just going to query the tool and it's going to give you?
00:15:31 Speaker 2
The responses you're looking for? Cautiously optimistic.
00:15:35 Speaker 3
You know, when I see these new commercials on TV about how now you're going to be able to have a full blown conversation with Alexa like, oh, well, that's that's interesting. Or just on teams. When I'm messaging somebody, it is saying what I think I want to respond and and am I being thoughtful. So in that aspect of like, are we going to get too reliant?
00:15:52 Speaker 3
And the technology to come up with the responses and and and topics, but it really do you see a benefit, you know we were talking about you know how to ride a condolence statement to somebody. And I'm like, oh, what do I say? And so leveraging that technology, yeah, is going to be helpful, but getting too reliant on it is it would be my concern.
00:16:13 Speaker 2
Yeah, I I worry about that too. And I know we've talked about hallucinations on previous podcasts and things like that, but I do believe we're entering a time in AI in AI where you will have these.
00:16:22 Speaker 2
We we hear all about agentic, AI and agent. You know, these agents that are going to be serving roles and you might have a agentic internal auditor on your team. And like I do think there's a relationship piece that people may end up develop not like a personal connection, but a relationship where ohh, maybe I'll go to the AI before I go to the people that I know. But I I do believe even in.
00:16:41 Speaker 2
The future. There's a place for.
00:16:42 Speaker 2
Both of those things to live in some kind of symbiotic relationship rather than one replacing the other at the end of the day.
00:16:48 Speaker 3
Yeah, I think we're at a point where we need to embrace it so that we can, you know.
00:16:53 Speaker 3
Incorporate it into the work that we're doing rather than this fear of, well, AI's just going to take over.
00:16:59 Speaker 2
We touched on this earlier, but especially with stakeholders within your company, when you're developing some of those relationships, we always talk about this concept of independence and objectivity. It's a key pillar of our profession. How do you balance that? Right. I think you mentioned some of this. But I mean, how would you, how do you find the balance there? Have you ever been concerned about your independence or objectivity like I like I mentioned earlier, there's been.
00:17:19 Speaker 2
I've had practitioners articulate that to me that I can't go to lunch with the stakeholder because it will violate my independence or, you know, or objective.
00:17:27 Speaker 2
And what I'm doing? What? What's your feelings on?
00:17:29 Speaker 2
That.
00:17:29 Speaker 3
I think it can be hard for some individuals, you know, because you do build these very, you know, intimate relationships with people as you're going through, you know, a 600 hour audit project and you're learning everything about, you know, the work that they do and you end up finding, hey, you know, you have this commonality, kids, dogs, sports or whatever.
00:17:50 Speaker 3
You know, so it is a fine line and I think it's something we have to keep on the forefront.
00:17:54 Speaker 3
You know, when I get new staff in, it's like remembering that yes, you're going to have to come back and audit this person. So you want to be respectful and and kind, you know, but you do need to keep that boundary. And you know, if it does come to a position to where you know, you end up getting in a very close relationship, you know, I met my.
00:18:12 Speaker 3
Husband at work.
00:18:13 Speaker 3
You know, back in the day.
00:18:14 Speaker 3
You know, and just acknowledging that and then rather than trying to compromise the work that we're doing or in the integrity.
00:18:21 Speaker 3
Have it.
00:18:22 Speaker 2
I couldn't agree with that more and I think I think it, I personally have always felt that it's additive to have those relationships. But to your point to a certain degree right, there is a line that if you, I don't think my personal opinion is going to lunch doesn't cross that line. But I think if you were you know an actual relationship and marrying someone that you're working with and yeah, that could be an independence compromising thing. So it's just something.
00:18:42 Speaker 2
Just just like anything else we do as practitioners, being mindful of some of and exercising professional judgment I think is just a critical component.
00:18:49 Speaker 2
To that.
00:18:49 Speaker 3
Yeah. And I don't think you should avoid going to lunch with people or going to coffee because.
00:18:54 Speaker 3
To me it builds that value of 1 when I do need to come back and do an audit, they're going like they know who I am and what I represent versus, you know, just blindly showing up out of nowhere.
00:19:06 Speaker 2
One thing we really haven't talked about is mentorship, and I'd love to hear your take on that. The CIA has a growing mentorship program. It started with, you know, maybe 5 or 10 mentors and mentees. And I think that last count I heard, we're up to almost 600 and something staggeringly large.
00:19:20 Speaker 2
Has has mentorship played a role in your career? Either? Do you, are you a mentor or have you been a mentee to somebody else or what? What are your feelings on how that may help in driving relationship development?
00:19:30 Speaker 3
Yeah, I I have had some unofficial mentors in my life, but I look back now to see they were pivotal in maybe teaching me, you know, a different skill or, you know, even just reviewing a resume and help mentor me. You know, as I was developing something at a point in time and now more recently, you know, I've actually.
00:19:50 Speaker 3
Add people will you be my mentor?
00:19:53 Speaker 3
And that's exciting. But then it's like overwhelming. And it's like, oh, my gosh, you know, what are you expecting out of me? And you never know what's going to come out of that. You know, we've had formal programs in our organizations where I've been able to mentor somebody. And it's exciting to see the information sharing that person wasn't even an audit.
00:20:13 Speaker 3
But I do see the value of it and it's part of that finding those people that network of individuals who are going to be able to support you.
00:20:22 Speaker 3
And the goals that you have, but then there could be a reciprocal aspect. You know, it's like mentoring up, but you know, I can't remember the exact phrase of it, but that idea, you know, could I mentor my boss? Absolutely I could.
00:20:35 Speaker 2
Absolutely. And then to your point, the other thing that I you mentioned you alluded to here was I don't think mentors and mentees always have to be in the profession.
00:20:42 Speaker 2
There I think there's a place for that and I think, you know, we the mentorship program that the CIA has does a tremendous job of that, but.
00:20:49 Speaker 2
I've had professional mentors that are not internal audit practitioners. They're just people that I aspire and appreciate how they've grown their careers and they that some of the advice and just how to interact with people, how to think about like life and work life, balance and manage through some of that. I mean, there's a lot of things to learn from people that also have diverse skill sets that are different than ours.
00:21:10 Speaker 2
As well, when we think about professional networking, whether it's mentor men, we could, we could probably do a whole podcast on the men's mentorship program and how valuable that is to practitioners on both on both sides, because I found it also as a mentor. I found it very personally rewarding as well to interact with younger practitioners that are up and coming in.
00:21:11 Speaker 3
Yes.
00:21:28 Speaker 2
Career. However, when I think about building your network and and you mentioned LinkedIn as a tool earlier, what tools have you used to sort of maintain your rolodex of contacts and your network? And is it is LinkedIn the primary source for that or are there other things that you would recommend others think about?
00:21:46 Speaker 2
Or look at.
00:21:47 Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean, gone are the days of the the Rolodex I used to save all the business cards and one thing I would always do is I'd write on the back of the business cards, something like, oh, he has a golden retriever. So I could maintain some sort of connection. So that's all gone. No, you know, everyone has digital business cards now.
00:22:05 Speaker 3
So I mean, I do rely a lot on LinkedIn to kind of see build my network of people. But also you know to engage with them. But it's just you know a lot of it is is e-mail. You know if I see somebody at a conference, I get their contact information. So my electronic Rolodex is quite full these days, but.
00:22:25 Speaker 3
Remembering, you know the connections that I'm making and where I met them, it helps me maintain that relationship with them.
00:22:32 Speaker 2
I think that's really well said. And there's a there's a concept, any business that has sales there. You're likely using some kind of CRM tool, you know, customer relationship management tool and.
00:22:40 Speaker 2
You know, we're simplifying a little bit, but I think you should in some ways think about this in a very similar way, because even if you're just saving a contact in your phone and you put it, you know, just like putting on the back of business card, you put a note on your phone about something that's important that you want to remember about that person. You're effectively building a personal CRM. And I think being authentic and intentional is really important. So it doesn't always have to be.
00:23:00 Speaker 2
On this date, I'm going to reach out to this person, but I do have I do have people in my network that I really find meaningful connections with and want to stay in touch and we'll do things like we'll put recurring meetings on the calendar and talk once a quarter or I do have like little notes that like I really want to reach out to this person. And you know, once a year and just check in to see how they.
00:23:17 Speaker 2
Because I were people that used to. Yeah, we worked together and they're longer there. It's hard to do that with your entire network. But I think between that for me, that type of interaction plus LinkedIn being active on LinkedIn and watching what people do in their profession, I I think does go a long way and maintaining that that networking base and growing it.
00:23:35 Speaker 3
Yeah, and it takes some work, you know, and all the things that we're describing here, if somebody new tries to take that all on, they're going to just they're done.
00:23:43 Speaker 3
You know, so just trying 1 little thing, you know, it's commenting on somebody's post that they put on LinkedIn or, you know, sending somebody an e-mail. Hey, thanks for the great conversation we had or whatever. It just starts to build that network. And then once there's this back and forth reciprocal aspect of it. Next thing you know, you have a lifelong professional friend.
00:24:03 Speaker 2
Couldn't agree more and I I do think you know a lot of the tactics we've talked about on this in this podcast. I do think if you try to deploy, if you're doing nothing and you're trying to deploy it all at once, I think that is overwhelming. But just like anything small, incremental changes, one thing at a time and I think you.
00:24:17 Speaker 2
Thing that you do that for with consistency for a year for two years, you're going to find that your network is significantly larger and stronger than it was before you started.
00:24:26 Speaker 3
Yeah, just like building those habits, you know, just start with something and then add something else. You know, I think that's the approach.
00:24:32 Speaker 2
Is there anything else you'd love you'd like to share or anything that we we want to?
00:24:36 Speaker 3
Hear tell the listeners. I'll volunteer with your local IA chapter. If I can give that plug. I mean, our industry, I mean, I didn't want to grow up and be an auditor. I don't know about.
00:24:46 Speaker 3
But we're here, and to keep building our industry because it's going to be changing so much over the next, you know, year, let alone 10 years and getting those connections with whether you just go to 1 chapter meeting you know and meet somebody new and you just the rewards you will get out of it will be.
00:25:05 Speaker 3
Just fundamental to your career success.
00:25:07 Speaker 2
I could. I couldn't agree more. Just like anything. You get what you put in and I think this organization is tremendous for that. And if you put the right level of effort you, you will come out of it further.
00:25:16 Speaker 2
Ahead than when?
00:25:16 Speaker 2
You started. Thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate having on the show.
00:25:17 Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:20 Speaker 3
Of course.
00:25:23 Speaker 1
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00:25:44 Speaker 1
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