ERM as a Secret Weapon: How Internal Audit Can Own the Risk Conversation

00:00:02 The IIA

The Institute of Internal Auditors presents All Things Internal Audit.

00:00:06 The IIA

In this episode, Charles King sits down with Shane Negengard to look at enterprise risk management not as a compliance exercise, but as one of the most powerful tools an internal audit leader can have if it's built and run the right way.

00:00:19 The IIA

They break down how to effectively establish an ERM program from the ground up.

00:00:23 The IIA

secure executive buy-in at the CEO board level, and use it as a flywheel for deeper relationships across the organization.

00:00:33 Charles King

Before we get started, maybe spend a few minutes to tell us a little bit about your background and your role at Workiva.

00:00:39 Shane Negangard

So I started my career in public accounting and the business risk process side of things and worked my way up to become a partner at Deloitte.

00:00:50 Shane Negangard

I was at Deloitte for almost 20 years.

00:00:53 Shane Negangard

And one day had an opportunity to, instead of serving 30 clients, focus primary attention on one client.

00:00:59 Shane Negangard

That one client is Workiva.

00:01:02 Shane Negangard

And it's been a fantastic almost two years now that I've been at Workiva.

00:01:06 Shane Negangard

I'm responsible for internal audit, SOX compliance, and enterprise risk management.

00:01:12 Charles King

Outstanding.

00:01:13 Charles King

And how big is the team at Workiva?

00:01:14 Shane Negangard

We have a team of three full-time auditors and we have 3 contractors.

00:01:19 Shane Negangard

Excellent.

00:01:19 Shane Negangard

Primarily the contractor support us on an IT audit space.

00:01:23 Speaker 4

Right.

00:01:23 Charles King

Yeah, pretty typical model.

00:01:26 Charles King

So I imagine working at a company like Workiva that primarily serves, well, not primarily, but does serve internal audit and SOX practitioners, I bet that you are a leading adopter and sometimes client zero for new features and functionality at Workiva.

00:01:44 Charles King

Is that a fair assessment?

00:01:46 Shane Negangard

That is a very fair assessment.

00:01:47 Shane Negangard

That is one of the great perks that comes along with working for a company like Workiva certainly.

00:01:52 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:01:52 Charles King

I imagine your opinion carries a lot of weight with the Workiva product roadmap and things like that.

00:01:58 Shane Negangard

So that's been an evolution.

00:02:00 Shane Negangard

If I were to have dreamed what it would be versus what it is today, I think it would be totally different.

00:02:08 Shane Negangard

And it's been an evolution.

00:02:10 Shane Negangard

in the sense of I expected things to be a little bit more set in stone, I guess.

00:02:16 Shane Negangard

But the industry that we work in, that's far from the truth.

00:02:20 Shane Negangard

And so working with a technology company, they're flexible and we're evolving as quick as we can in that space.

00:02:28 Shane Negangard

And as a result of that, not only am I trying to enhance my understanding, my skills with the development, but take my team on that same journey with me

00:02:39 Shane Negangard

And ultimately, yes, the way that we're looking at our work and our risk and controls environment is different.

00:02:46 Shane Negangard

And that's agnostic of whatever process or whatever system we would be using.

00:02:50 Shane Negangard

But when we marry the two together to the Workiva platform and the way that we can automate and take a different mindset towards how we're doing our work, not only today, but planning for the future, knowing that

00:03:05 Shane Negangard

AI is changing and the way that we've already started to adopt it has allowed us to take a different perspective and be real-time providers back to our team that otherwise was working on a more static product.

00:03:19 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:03:20 Charles King

Well, you're in a really interesting space right now with all of the AI innovation and Workiva obviously has a great, great reputation in the industry.

00:03:30 Charles King

You've been leaders for many years.

00:03:32 Charles King

And I think

00:03:34 Charles King

Being in an audit role now with all of the AI coming out and especially being in a technology company, independent of the fact that you serve internal auditors is just, it creates a lot of pressure, but it also creates a lot of opportunity.

00:03:47 Charles King

But I would love to talk with you about something a little different.

00:03:50 Charles King

I know one of your big passions is enterprise risk management and kind of risk management overall.

00:03:56 Charles King

And that's something, I talk a lot about AI and internal audit.

00:04:00 Charles King

I don't think AI and ERM or just ERM in general gets the same level of focus.

00:04:06 Charles King

But talk to me a little bit about how, especially going from a professional services consultant to in-house and taking over, setting up, running your enterprise risk management.

00:04:18 Charles King

platform.

00:04:19 Charles King

How's that worked for you and what are you focused on right now?

00:04:23 Shane Negangard

I see ERM as a secret weapon in a very good way, in a very positive sense.

00:04:28 Shane Negangard

Setting up, establishing, formalizing the enterprise risk function at Workiva and leading that with some help from my team was what really set the foundation for building relationships across the organization.

00:04:41 Shane Negangard

Our ERM executive committee is co-chaired by our CEO

00:04:45 Shane Negangard

and our audit committee chairman.

00:04:47 Shane Negangard

So it gives me another great opportunity to interact with them, to pick their brain and understand and confirm that our risk and our controls are aligned with our strategic initiatives.

00:05:00 Shane Negangard

And then ultimately work with their direct reports with the executive leadership team in first identifying what risk we want to focus on and then doing periodic risk assessments and building out the risk mitigation

00:05:15 Shane Negangard

and the monitoring plans, all using the Workiva platform, of course.

00:05:19 Shane Negangard

And those follow-ups then allow me to stay current with current events and also to provide insights in terms of what I'm seeing across the other functions.

00:05:29 Shane Negangard

And so it's been a weapon in a very positive sense in terms of going across the various functions, breaking down and sometimes those silos that naturally develop, sharing

00:05:41 Shane Negangard

cross-pollinating.

00:05:43 Shane Negangard

And then what shakes out of that ultimately is my risk-based audit plan.

00:05:47 Charles King

I love the fact that your CEO and your audit committee chair are that involved.

00:05:52 Charles King

You don't always see that level of leadership or executive buy-in to enterprise risk management programs.

00:05:59 Charles King

Was that something that you helped to affect or was that something that was just important to them from the beginning and just sort of happened because you had a meeting of the minds?

00:06:08 Shane Negangard

I think it was a little bit of the both.

00:06:10 Shane Negangard

I think a lot of it comes from strong leadership within our board.

00:06:14 Shane Negangard

We have a very seasoned board with a lot of great experience and we have a very curious CEO as well.

00:06:21 Shane Negangard

And when the opportunity to create and enhance our enterprise risk management program came about, it naturally progressed to internal audit.

00:06:31 Shane Negangard

Workiva is not of the size yet where we have a full-time dedicated chief risk officer.

00:06:36 Shane Negangard

So that's another hat that I can wear while still being independent and focusing all the attention that's needed on internal controls.

00:06:45 Shane Negangard

But what the ERM rule allows me to do is to have that top-down risk-based look.

00:06:51 Shane Negangard

And then when the team and I focus on

00:06:54 Shane Negangard

Sarbanes-Oxley or internal controls or financial reporting, as well as some operational audits, we bring the bottom-up approach.

00:07:01 Shane Negangard

And so ideally what we're trying to do is meet in the middle to make sure that no rock goes unturned.

00:07:06 Charles King

Enterprise risk management programs can look very different in different organizations.

00:07:12 Charles King

It's not just a big company, small company divide.

00:07:15 Charles King

It's how you classify risk, how you share or assign risk ownership, how risk management is actually resourced, right?

00:07:25 Charles King

Or whether it's resourced.

00:07:26 Charles King

I mean, there are so many different flavors of ERM.

00:07:30 Charles King

And I'd love for you to maybe put your consultant hat back on as well.

00:07:34 Charles King

And as you look across all the different organizations that you've helped over the course of your career from an ERM standpoint, what are some big takeaways for you

00:07:43 Charles King

in terms of how to make sure that you don't just have an enterprise risk management program that checks a box or looks good on paper, but something that actually manages risk actively, right?

00:07:55 Charles King

Stuff gets done.

00:07:56 Shane Negangard

For sure.

00:07:57 Shane Negangard

And I think that's a challenge.

00:07:58 Shane Negangard

And I observe that in many organizations where I was brought in as a consultant to help lay the foundation, to identify what are the risks, create the periodic assessment approach, as well as then to provide maybe the first round of results

00:08:12 Shane Negangard

and then the company would take it in-house.

00:08:15 Shane Negangard

And something that I was always passionate about was following up and knowing whatever became of that and were they seeing the needle move in the right direction in terms of either identifying emerging risk early or pulling some of those top risks down through risk mitigation techniques.

00:08:32 Shane Negangard

But ultimately, I think what it taught me was enterprise risk management can be

00:08:40 Shane Negangard

a collaborative tool that brings awareness as well as it creates dialogue.

00:08:45 Shane Negangard

And you're going to get out of it what you put into it, much like many things in life.

00:08:49 Shane Negangard

But not to get too philosophical, I think the biggest value that you can bring in terms of enterprise risk management is adding some structure around a bunch of different ideas, a bunch of different thoughts.

00:09:03 Shane Negangard

a bunch of different assumptions and trying to bring reality to that and not buoying the ocean.

00:09:08 Shane Negangard

So you need to have a long list that then continually gets bundled into what are your top five priorities?

00:09:15 Shane Negangard

What are the top two maybe that you wanna tackle and focus on in the next quarter or the next year, depending upon the size and the magnitude or the speed of onset for those risks.

00:09:26 Shane Negangard

And that's where internal audit can bring that objective role.

00:09:30 Shane Negangard

So when I say I lead enterprise risk management, really I'm facilitating enterprise risk management and I'm trying to provide reassurance that we're on track to hit those strategic goals and that initiatives and there's not any potential showstoppers coming around the corner or items that could disrupt or where we've identified potential risk that are disruptive.

00:09:55 Shane Negangard

Are we doing everything we can in our power?

00:09:57 Shane Negangard

Do we have a responsible, accountable timeline set?

00:10:01 Shane Negangard

And ultimately, is it as good as we think it is?

00:10:05 Shane Negangard

And that's the trust but verify that I love to think about.

00:10:08 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:10:09 Charles King

So I love the fact that you're talking about really prioritizing on the handful of top risks.

00:10:16 Charles King

One of the things that I've observed, and I think you may be fortunate to have the level of executive buy-in that you've got at the CEO level and beyond, but sometimes people that are the most natural risk owners can bristle a little bit at feeling like they are responsible for managing the risk.

00:10:35 Charles King

And there's a little bit of persuasion, a little bit of education, a little bit of discussion that needs to be had really across the leadership team to

00:10:45 Charles King

make sure that everyone understands.

00:10:47 Charles King

You mentioned the racy matrix and responsible, accountable.

00:10:50 Charles King

What are some approaches that you've taken when you speak with executives and other leaders about what it means to own a risk and what their responsibilities are in that context?

00:11:02 Shane Negangard

Yes, everything you said I think is spot on, Charles, in terms of the different perceptions.

00:11:08 Shane Negangard

Again, because I'm an auditor primarily, no one gets overly excited about talking to the auditors.

00:11:14 Shane Negangard

or they don't want to admit that they might have vulnerabilities.

00:11:18 Shane Negangard

And so when you change the conversation to talk about that there are vulnerabilities all over the place, but there are also opportunities to manage what's the potential impact of that vulnerability.

00:11:32 Shane Negangard

And again, whether you're measuring speed of onset or management preparedness, other variables that you can track and plot,

00:11:41 Shane Negangard

it gives them permission to kind of be vulnerable and share what their concerns are.

00:11:46 Shane Negangard

And if you can establish that level of trust and understanding, then what comes out of that is a proactive partnership going forward to where they're recognizing and they become extra eyes and ears.

00:12:01 Shane Negangard

And who's not, I mean, there's no one better than them being on the front line to understand

00:12:06 Shane Negangard

what's going on in their risk area, perhaps, or in some cases, it's redefining what they believe is their risk or breaking down, one risk like something like cybersecurity, for instance.

00:12:20 Shane Negangard

that could be broken out into 30 plus different domains and we're not going to fix all 30 at once.

00:12:27 Shane Negangard

So we need to reprioritize and pick and focus on what's potentially

00:12:33 Shane Negangard

coming around the corner or what do we want to do from even a regulatory or brand reputational standpoint?

00:12:39 Shane Negangard

And you're right, I'm very fortunate to have that executive level presence because that gives the process some extra teeth, as we might say.

00:12:48 Shane Negangard

But it also, I think, shows that it's important to the organization.

00:12:53 Shane Negangard

And with that importance, then comes added responsibility.

00:12:58 Shane Negangard

And

00:12:59 Shane Negangard

Naturally, we all we like more responsibility, I think, as human beings, and it's.

00:13:05 Shane Negangard

satisfying at the end of the day to know that I'm responsible for something and I'm making an impact in that way.

00:13:12 Shane Negangard

And that again circles me back to the facilitator.

00:13:15 Shane Negangard

So it's a little bit of bridging the gap in people's minds in terms of what are they responsible for and how can they themselves

00:13:24 Shane Negangard

make an impact towards the future successes of the company and making sure that we're driving in the same direction.

00:13:30 Charles King

Yeah, and I think sometimes there's this misunderstanding that if you are the risk owner, that all that means is you're like a single throat to choke or something if something goes wrong.

00:13:40 Charles King

And I think the reality is really seasoned executives understand that everyone is balancing and mitigating risk.

00:13:47 Charles King

And some of those risks can be realized and things will go wrong even in the best managed

00:13:52 Charles King

organization, that's not an indictment of your leadership skills or your foresight or your capabilities, but failing to acknowledge that things can go wrong and failing to discuss how you're going to react when things go wrong, that is a weakness in leadership.

00:14:07 Charles King

You talked about more responsibility.

00:14:09 Charles King

I think in the best led enterprise risk management programs,

00:14:14 Charles King

being really open and honest about the risks that you face and agreeing about how you're going to mitigate those risks is also a pathway to get resources.

00:14:24 Charles King

As you have those discussions, if this is something that as an organization we've decided we want to manage, saying that on a slide without putting any budget or people or bandwidth behind it is really not a very meaningful exercise.

00:14:42 Shane Negangard

That's exactly right.

00:14:43 Shane Negangard

And so you have to then turn those conversations into action.

00:14:46 Shane Negangard

And we're in the process of refining and better defining what some of those risks are.

00:14:53 Shane Negangard

So that then we have the right KPIs or risk indicators.

00:14:57 Shane Negangard

and how we're going to monitor those.

00:14:59 Shane Negangard

And are there opportunities to innovate and use artificial intelligence to predict perhaps based on what we're seeing in the marketplace, in the economy, across our organization, and amongst our peers as well?

00:15:12 Shane Negangard

That's again, that's the exciting point.

00:15:14 Shane Negangard

It never becomes stale.

00:15:15 Shane Negangard

It never becomes static.

00:15:16 Shane Negangard

There's always opportunity to share more and learn more.

00:15:21 Shane Negangard

And once you've earned

00:15:23 Shane Negangard

As we talk about that proverbial seat at the table and you've earned the trust of those risk owners so that it's a two-way dialogue, it can really be fun and exciting.

00:15:32 Shane Negangard

And it's something that then overall, it's benefiting our internal audit function in terms of where we focus our attention.

00:15:40 Shane Negangard

We can provide reassurance or we can provide strategic direction and impact assessments or in addition to risk assessments as well.

00:15:47 Shane Negangard

I'd.

00:15:48 Charles King

Probably be remiss if I didn't ask a little bit about

00:15:51 Charles King

AI and ERM, but are there any novel use cases or approaches that you have or are considering using in terms of your AI tooling to support your ERM program?

00:16:05 Shane Negangard

So early on, we used AI to help us write some of our risk definitions, trying to make it meaningful, trying to make it synonymous with our cultural aspirations.

00:16:17 Shane Negangard

with the backgrounds and the various experiences as well as the tools and the technologies that we have across the company.

00:16:23 Shane Negangard

That was helpful.

00:16:25 Shane Negangard

What we find is after every assessment period, we end up revisiting some of those risks saying, why is it moving this way or why didn't it move that way?

00:16:34 Shane Negangard

Perhaps these keywords are being interpreted by different leaders in different ways or based on what we're hearing and seeing

00:16:43 Shane Negangard

in the media and in the marketplace, where can we enhance this definition?

00:16:48 Shane Negangard

So we added an artificial intelligence risk last year, early on in that process to say, first, where does that fit?

00:16:55 Shane Negangard

Is that a data governance?

00:16:56 Shane Negangard

Is it a cyber?

00:16:58 Shane Negangard

Is it a cloud computing?

00:17:00 Shane Negangard

Is it policies and procedures?

00:17:02 Shane Negangard

What do we need?

00:17:03 Shane Negangard

Well, let's have our own risk and let's assign ownership and let's think about that then on a periodic basis.

00:17:11 Shane Negangard

It's not our number one risk.

00:17:13 Shane Negangard

but it's moved around.

00:17:15 Shane Negangard

And I feel more confident that we at least have our eye on it.

00:17:19 Shane Negangard

We're discussing it.

00:17:21 Shane Negangard

And in addition to that, we're thinking about how we disclose those risks or providing reassurance that we have thought about all the risk in our disclosures.

00:17:31 Shane Negangard

And so

00:17:33 Shane Negangard

AI can be a research tool as well, and we can compare and contrast to other like or dissimilar organizations in terms of what risk they're looking at and how they're monitoring those risks.

00:17:44 Shane Negangard

And then ultimately, we can get creative and say, well, if we had a risk like this, let's do some scenario planning and how could we potentially mitigate it or what are some tests?

00:17:56 Shane Negangard

or what are some audits that internal audit could do to help provide some reassurance to that leadership team or that functional operation?

00:18:04 Charles King

Yeah, I wanted to ask about your approach to scenario planning or war gaming, if that's something you do.

00:18:10 Charles King

I haven't had an opportunity to do this with AI, but I've always felt like AI could be a really powerful tool for setting up war gaming exercises or coming up with scenarios that will be really helpful.

00:18:20 Charles King

And I know

00:18:21 Charles King

Our ERM leader at the firm is a sort of frequent practitioner of those kinds of things.

00:18:26 Charles King

And how does that play out there?

00:18:29 Charles King

And you mentioned scenario planning.

00:18:30 Charles King

What does scenario planning look like at Workiva?

00:18:33 Shane Negangard

Yeah, it's something that we're still building out.

00:18:35 Shane Negangard

It's something I'd say we're in the early stages of experimenting with.

00:18:40 Shane Negangard

It's part of our maturity continuum.

00:18:43 Shane Negangard

We've recognized that it's an opportunity.

00:18:46 Shane Negangard

It's a way to, again, keep the program from becoming static.

00:18:50 Shane Negangard

and to constantly reassess where we're at, where we're headed.

00:18:55 Shane Negangard

And the goal I think is to have workshops with various leaders and to allow them to come in and talk about what are the best case or worst case scenarios.

00:19:07 Shane Negangard

And instead of just focusing on the what can go wrong,

00:19:11 Shane Negangard

we're adding more insight to the dialogue in terms of what has to go right.

00:19:14 Shane Negangard

That's really the key focus, and that's a lot more pleasurable conversation for individuals.

00:19:20 Shane Negangard

It allows folks to embrace ultimately the primary goal.

00:19:25 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:19:26 Charles King

So you've got a pretty small team, you mentioned.

00:19:29 Charles King

I think when you have smaller teams like that, one of the things that it can do is give your people exposure to things like ERM that in a larger

00:19:39 Charles King

department, they might not get that kind of executive level exposure.

00:19:44 Charles King

But sometimes there are a lot of risks that are sensitive and you may want to keep the circle pretty small.

00:19:50 Charles King

How do you balance using ERM as a way to educate your team on risk in general and the company versus making sure that you're protecting things that need to be protected and keeping confidential information confidential?

00:20:06 Shane Negangard

Yeah, it's been

00:20:07 Shane Negangard

unique opportunity for me to share with some of my team members that otherwise weren't privy to that type of information.

00:20:14 Shane Negangard

It gives them a chance to take their head out of the weeds from the day-to-day controls testing and to think more strategically and gives them visibility into what type of conversations are taking place at the executive level.

00:20:27 Shane Negangard

And why is the company making the decisions it's making or why are things trending or appear to be trending in one direction or another?

00:20:37 Shane Negangard

I think it gives them a sense of a broader sense of ownership and understanding of the organization and ultimately recognizing that they can make a bigger impact beyond some of the traditional foundational things that we do as an auditor, beyond testing controls, beyond designing controls, and beyond executing your standard compliance audits.

00:21:00 Shane Negangard

And it's an opportunity then to showcase that internal audit can

00:21:06 Shane Negangard

go out, accumulate a lot of data, and surmise it in a way that it becomes actionable.

00:21:10 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:21:11 Charles King

I mean, it's a great opportunity.

00:21:13 Charles King

I guess we talked a little bit about your people.

00:21:16 Charles King

What about the different risk owners and other executives?

00:21:20 Charles King

Like how deep into their organizations are they including their teams in the risk management program?

00:21:25 Shane Negangard

That's been a big move as well.

00:21:28 Shane Negangard

So we've been on this journey now for about 20 months.

00:21:32 Shane Negangard

And what we've recognized is

00:21:35 Shane Negangard

there were pockets within the organization where it was assumed maybe that risk fell in another area or it was assumed they owned that risk.

00:21:46 Shane Negangard

And what we've identified is perhaps we were going in the same direction, perhaps we had pockets almost working against each other.

00:21:54 Shane Negangard

And so it's created enhanced visibility, which then leads to enhanced collaboration and clarity around

00:22:01 Shane Negangard

not only the risk itself, but more importantly, the risk mitigation or the strategic approach to managing that risk.

00:22:07 Shane Negangard

And I think as the senior executives have become more comfortable with the approach, they see that it's not something that was a one and done, it's not going away.

00:22:17 Shane Negangard

It's part of our DNA going forward.

00:22:19 Shane Negangard

They're embracing it and they're recognizing the opportunity to allow their teams to get more involved as well.

00:22:25 Shane Negangard

And so what we have is we have primary risk owners, we have secondary risk owners,

00:22:31 Shane Negangard

for every risk in terms of the top risk that we're reassessing on a periodic frequency.

00:22:36 Shane Negangard

And then those primary and secondary risk owners are starting to form task force to manage those risks and to help accumulate the data and to measure from a performance indication.

00:22:48 Shane Negangard

And so I'm seeing where our role will continue to be the facilitator

00:22:52 Shane Negangard

but more the data collector and another opportunity perhaps to use artificial intelligence to say, surmise this data for me.

00:22:59 Shane Negangard

What key themes are we seeing or what are we not seeing that we would like to be seeing or we should be seeing?

00:23:05 Shane Negangard

And so it's exciting.

00:23:07 Shane Negangard

I think the future will be told.

00:23:09 Shane Negangard

I'd love to have this conversation again in a year and see where we're at.

00:23:12 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:23:13 Charles King

Well, last question.

00:23:14 Charles King

I guess a lot of internal audit leaders don't own the ERM program at their companies.

00:23:21 Charles King

Maybe because there's so much variability or so much bespoke nature of the program for different companies, I think there's a lot of misunderstandings about ERM.

00:23:30 Charles King

But if you were talking to a group of auditors that don't own the ERM function and maybe aren't very involved in the ERM function, what do you think is a big misunderstanding about ERM or maybe a lesson learned about ERM that you'd share with people that aren't practitioners?

00:23:48 Shane Negangard

I think what comes down or what creates some questions that it comes down to sometimes is who really owns those risks.

00:23:56 Shane Negangard

And so again, I go back to that word, I'm facilitating in a structured way, in a project management fashion.

00:24:03 Shane Negangard

We being internal, we're not owning those risks.

00:24:06 Shane Negangard

We're helping confirm who does in fact own those risks or who's responsible.

00:24:11 Shane Negangard

And then we hold them accountable at the end of the day.

00:24:14 Shane Negangard

But we're not making the decisions.

00:24:16 Shane Negangard

We're not

00:24:17 Shane Negangard

allocating the budget, we might help prepare a business case, we might help break apart a business case, or we might go out and source subject matter expertise to help find.

00:24:29 Shane Negangard

And something you alluded to early was a lot of times it's helping find the budget to make the initiative happen.

00:24:36 Shane Negangard

And while our goal is not to go find more money and spend more money, ultimately we're making sure that we're making smart bets.

00:24:45 Shane Negangard

and those bets are playing out the way that we need them to.

00:24:49 Shane Negangard

For me, it's again, my secret weapon, because now I'm seeing from the top and I'm seeing from the bottom, and it allows us to be more strategic.

00:24:58 Shane Negangard

And it shifted our focus.

00:24:59 Shane Negangard

We have limited time, limited resources, and a small team.

00:25:03 Shane Negangard

And so should we be spending all our time doing annual T&E report reviews, or could we be thinking about a new system coming online or a new regulatory impact that not only could disrupt our business, but it creates maybe a niche opportunity?

00:25:21 Shane Negangard

And can we get the right people in the right room or on the right call to figure that out?

00:25:25 Shane Negangard

It's a little bit different skill set.

00:25:27 Shane Negangard

It gives us an opportunity to use another part of our brain

00:25:30 Shane Negangard

and it allows my team to interact with executives at a different level as well.

00:25:35 Shane Negangard

It's a lot of fun.

00:25:36 Shane Negangard

It really is.

00:25:37 Shane Negangard

Something I'm passionate about.

00:25:39 Charles King

Shane, thanks for coming on All Things Internal Audit.

00:25:41 Charles King

It was great to speak with you today.

00:25:43 Shane Negangard

My pleasure.

00:25:43 Shane Negangard

Thank you, Charles.

00:25:46 The IIA

If you like this podcast, please subscribe and rate us.

00:25:49 The IIA

You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

00:25:52 The IIA

You can also catch other episodes on YouTube or at the iia.org.

00:25:56 The IIA

That's THEIIA.org.