Beyond the Textbook: What Students See in Internal Audit

00:00:02 The IIA

The Institute of Internal Auditors presents All Things Internal Audit.

00:00:06 The IIA

Seven students, 7 conversations, one profession.

00:00:11 Omar Ontiveros

I had all these misconceptions of what accounting was.

00:00:14 Omar Ontiveros

There are so many other routes and niches that you can really get into and internal audit wouldn't even be on my mind if it wasn't through my mentorship.

00:00:23 Priya Bhatt

It kind of really makes you think of the gravity of your work and you think

00:00:29 Priya Bhatt

Wow, I could really make a change.

00:00:31 Priya Bhatt

It's significant.

00:00:32 Olivia Gallagher

I think what we learn in class is very, it's very coursework heavy, and I think actual internal auditing is a lot of talking to people, building those connections and listening to what people are saying and understanding what they're saying.

00:00:46 Ryan Lam

It's a career where you can really change, make a difference, and also meet new people.

00:00:51 The IIA

They're all at different points in their education, and one has already logged real hours in the field, but they're all wrestling with the same

00:00:59 The IIA

What actually happens when theory meets a client?

00:01:02 The IIA

How do you deliver an answer when it's uncomfortable?

00:01:04 The IIA

And what can you only learn by watching the work get done?

00:01:08 The IIA

This is beyond the textbook.

00:01:10 The IIA

What students see in internal audit.

00:01:17 The IIA

For many accounting students, the first career map is familiar.

00:01:20 The IIA

Tax on one side, external audit on the other.

00:01:23 The IIA

Omar Ontiveros, a senior at California State University, Long Beach, knew both routes.

00:01:29 The IIA

Neither felt like his.

00:01:30 Omar Ontiveros

I never really felt like either one was really resonating with what I wanted to do.

00:01:34 Omar Ontiveros

I knew I wanted more of a creative aspect into the work that I would do, and I wanted to sort of take control of, instead of just following maybe some sort of strict procedure, I like the variability in the work.

00:01:47 The IIA

His entry point was mentorship.

00:01:50 The IIA

For Saurabh Chhetri, a master's student at DePaul University, it was a job at a bank.

00:01:55 Saurabh Kshatri

So when I first graduated from my bachelor's and when I completed my CMA, the first job that I did was an internal audit job in one of the big banks.

00:02:04 Saurabh Kshatri

That was the first time when I heard about internal auditing.

00:02:07 The IIA

Dhawani Shah, also at DePaul, found internal audit from the other direction.

00:02:11 Dhvani Shah

Somebody reached out to me and told me about Internal Audit Club.

00:02:14 The IIA

At Winthrop University, junior Olivia Gallagher heard about it from a professor who had done the work.

00:02:20 Olivia Gallagher

I was taking my intro to accounting class and my professor, he was a past internal auditor.

00:02:25 Olivia Gallagher

worked with one of the big four and he talked very highly of internal auditing.

00:02:29 Olivia Gallagher

And I remember that was one of my first thoughts in which way I would take this accounting degree.

00:02:34 The IIA

Priyab Bhat studies management information systems at Texas A&M University.

00:02:38 The IIA

Internal audit appeared when another academic plan disappeared.

00:02:41 Priya Bhatt

I've always known about external audit from my previous accounting courses, but internal audit, it came at a time in my life where I had to fill up my degree plan and the minor that I wanted to pursue

00:02:55 Priya Bhatt

more tech-based, it got dissolved and applications were no longer being accepted.

00:03:01 Priya Bhatt

So when I was having to choose what courses to take, I was thinking, let me apply for this.

00:03:10 Priya Bhatt

The idea that internal audit is not so financial was the best part, because I think looking at numbers all day, it may seem fun to some people, but not to me.

00:03:20 Priya Bhatt

I think I want to work more with people and work more with the day-to-day life of employees.

00:03:26 The IIA

In Calgary, Ryan Lamb, a third year accounting student at the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology, heard his instructor describe a career that could change how a company operates.

00:03:36 Ryan Lam

He introduced me to internal auditing not just as an

00:03:39 Ryan Lam

an auditing career, but it's also a career where I can make a difference, a place where I can change a company to advise them on what they may need to improve on their processes.

00:03:49 Ryan Lam

And I found it as a great opportunity to improve on what I can do in life and also for business as a whole.

00:03:55 The IIA

Moises Gutierrez, a third-year accounting student at Valdosta State University, followed a professor's invitation beyond the classroom.

00:04:03 Moises Gutierrez

His name is Raymond Ellison.

00:04:05 Moises Gutierrez

Honestly, he's just been an inspiration to us and all the accounting class, to be honest.

00:04:12 The IIA

No single recruiting story, no single route in.

00:04:15 The IIA

What they shared was a person who made the profession visible.

00:04:23 The IIA

Knowing a profession exists is different from seeing yourself inside of it.

00:04:27 The IIA

For each student, something made the work tangible.

00:04:29 The IIA

For Olivia, it happened in an advanced class during an audit of customer service at a nearby animal hospital.

00:04:35 Olivia Gallagher

So I did first start considering it as a career path after my intro to accounting class, but I think when I really started to resonate with it was my advanced internal auditing class.

00:04:46 Olivia Gallagher

We audited the Fort Mill Animal Hospital, which is right down the street from Winthrop.

00:04:51 Olivia Gallagher

And we audited their customer services.

00:04:53 Olivia Gallagher

And I remember feeling, like this makes sense.

00:04:56 Olivia Gallagher

This is all clicking.

00:04:58 Olivia Gallagher

I'm a very, not trustworthy, but I like to think things through.

00:05:02 Olivia Gallagher

And I think internal auditors are kind of, that's their job.

00:05:04 Olivia Gallagher

They're supposed to be the brakes.

00:05:05 Olivia Gallagher

And so yeah, I really enjoyed just the process that comes with internal auditing.

00:05:10 The IIA

It's very step by step.

00:05:12 The IIA

Ryan's version came from a fictional company where the decisions still felt real.

00:05:17 Ryan Lam

What made the profession more real is especially the case studies that

00:05:21 Ryan Lam

we had in our class.

00:05:23 Ryan Lam

So one of the case studies that we worked on was for a manufacturing company that was called Sabana Manufacturing.

00:05:28 Ryan Lam

It's A fictional company, just for a case study overall.

00:05:31 Ryan Lam

But it was great to have the case study because I learned about the practical applications of internal auditing, especially when it comes to applying internal auditing to the different professions within a business.

00:05:43 Ryan Lam

So I worked on the purchasing department.

00:05:45 Ryan Lam

There was also receivables and payables.

00:05:47 Ryan Lam

And in the classroom, it is difficult to gain that knowledge from just theory alone.

00:05:51 Ryan Lam

But the case studies really did help.

00:05:53 Ryan Lam

And especially with case competitions too, it really does help too.

00:05:57 Ryan Lam

I've been a participant in a case competition, and it really gets to show how this is applicable in an internal audit setting in the business.

00:06:06 Ryan Lam

And that's what I really value.

00:06:07 The IIA

Setab's moment came through forensic audit in a professor with an FBI background.

00:06:12 Saurabh Kshatri

During my last quarter, I was studying a forensic audit.

00:06:16 Saurabh Kshatri

And I had one of my professor, he was from FBI.

00:06:18 Saurabh Kshatri

So yeah, it kind of made me feel like, yeah, I want to do this.

00:06:22 Saurabh Kshatri

It feels amazing to interview people, to get to know more and to learn about the company.

00:06:27 Saurabh Kshatri

I feel that was one of the main things that I got attracted to more during my last quarter of those studies.

00:06:33 The IIA

Moises arrived at the same shift.

00:06:35 Moises Gutierrez

After learning and going through some several sessions, I feel like this could be a meaningful impact to me.

00:06:40 Moises Gutierrez

I mean, with accounting, with CPAs, you just

00:06:45 Moises Gutierrez

have to stick to the script, as you can say.

00:06:48 Moises Gutierrez

Well, as with internal auditing, you can be creative.

00:06:51 The IIA

The point was not the disguise.

00:06:53 The IIA

It was permission to think beyond the standard test.

00:06:56 The IIA

Omar's realization happened in reverse.

00:06:58 The IIA

He began seeing internal audit and work he had already done.

00:07:01 Omar Ontiveros

After learning that internal auditors really are the ones, kind of maybe the backbone in a business, making sure that it's holding up right,

00:07:10 Omar Ontiveros

and sending those controls in place.

00:07:12 Omar Ontiveros

I found that I use internal audit procedures every day.

00:07:16 Omar Ontiveros

I also work while I'm in school.

00:07:17 Omar Ontiveros

I used to work for Wells Fargo at a bank and they have multiple controls in place where dual controls, there's that segregation of duties, different things that I started seeing like, oh wow, this makes sense and I understand why it's working.

00:07:32 Omar Ontiveros

And it was like this new realization where accounting doesn't just have to be numbers, right?

00:07:36 Omar Ontiveros

So

00:07:37 Omar Ontiveros

Now I work for the city of Long Beach as an accounting clerk, and it's there.

00:07:42 Omar Ontiveros

I've been able to integrate and help management come up with their own procedures as well.

00:07:47 Omar Ontiveros

So I already have kind of a knack for it, and I can't wait to start doing it professionally eventually.

00:07:53 The IIA

The work clicked when it stopped sounding abstract.

00:07:59 The IIA

Once the work felt real, another question surfaced.

00:08:03 The IIA

What parts of themselves could they bring to it?

00:08:05 Moises Gutierrez

I feel like as we grow, we kind of lose our creative insight.

00:08:09 Moises Gutierrez

I mean, as we age, we have the weight of the world on our shoulders and we don't really have that ability as to think outside.

00:08:19 Moises Gutierrez

We are critical thinkers all throughout, but I feel like if we are also creative critical thinkers, we can think ahead of most people and find solutions to even the most hardest of problems.

00:08:30 Moises Gutierrez

and just have fun with it, honestly.

00:08:32 The IIA

Ryan's answers begin somewhere else, with protection and continuity.

00:08:37 Ryan Lam

I've always believed in protecting other people and protecting that future for them too.

00:08:42 Ryan Lam

So in regards to internal auditing and building a company, for companies that do last well beyond lifetimes, internal auditors are there to ensure that the processes work and that the company continue on to serve the people too.

00:08:55 Ryan Lam

That's what I really value in internal auditing.

00:08:57 The IIA

For Devani, the profession could become a way into a business.

00:09:00 The IIA

business she may one day own.

00:09:02 Dhvani Shah

I see myself working in a restaurant or hospitality kind of industry because I do love restaurants and everything and I do want to have my restaurant or my own restaurant one day.

00:09:11 Dhvani Shah

So I feel like that I would love to do.

00:09:13 Dhvani Shah

Yeah, start with internal audit in such kind of an industry and then understand the business and then kind of have my own one day.

00:09:19 The IIA

Different industries, same attraction.

00:09:21 The IIA

A view of how business works from the inside.

00:09:24 Dhvani Shah

I think yes, definitely.

00:09:25 Dhvani Shah

Like understanding the behind the scenes of it, internal audit would be perfect to start with.

00:09:30 Saurabh Kshatri

I feel that if you interact with more and more people and internal audit as well, if you work in audit, you need to interact with more and more people, right?

00:09:37 Saurabh Kshatri

So if you interact, you get to know more and you get to explore more of the world.

00:09:42 Saurabh Kshatri

So I feel that this is one of the main path we could go.

00:09:45 The IIA

Olivia's still deciding what kind of organization fits her.

00:09:49 Olivia Gallagher

So I think at different stages of my life, I would have said different things.

00:09:52 Olivia Gallagher

I know when I first started this out, I wanted a big four company.

00:09:54 Olivia Gallagher

I wanted somewhere where I could grow just at one place and travel.

00:10:00 Olivia Gallagher

And then I think as I continued and kind of met with people, a lot of people talked about that work-life balance.

00:10:05 Olivia Gallagher

So then I moved more to a, I wanted to work at a smaller company.

00:10:09 Olivia Gallagher

And I think I'm kind of on that road to working back at a big four so I can learn more.

00:10:13 Olivia Gallagher

I think that's what I really want, that flexibility.

00:10:15 Olivia Gallagher

And I think big fours kind of, or bigger companies allow that because they have more than just one, like not just tax, but they have internal audit, tax, external audit,

00:10:24 Olivia Gallagher

And so I think I might be moving more towards a big four kind of company.

00:10:27 The IIA

Priya is looking for a role broad enough to use more than one part of her.

00:10:31 Priya Bhatt

After hearing my diverse background, I would probably say either consulting or internal audit.

00:10:36 Priya Bhatt

I think it helps

00:10:39 Priya Bhatt

hone my skills and also make sure that I'm using everything like my social skills or my writing skills or just anything in that bubble because that way I can grow beyond that and I can also meet new people, grow my network and also just make a difference in businesses so that they're making wiser decisions and they're also growing their profits every day because that is their main goal.

00:11:04 Priya Bhatt

They want to make profits.

00:11:06 Priya Bhatt

But making it in a wiser way is probably the best decision.

00:11:09 The IIA

And their ambitions don't point to 1 version of an internal auditor.

00:11:13 The IIA

The common thread is curiosity that wants somewhere useful to go.

00:11:20 The IIA

What's great is the classroom gives them language.

00:11:22 The IIA

The issue is that it can't recreate every condition in which that language has to work.

00:11:28 The IIA

Olivia kept returning to one skill that's difficult to practice in a classroom.

00:11:32 Olivia Gallagher

I think what we learn in class is very, it's very coursework heavy, you know, and I think actual internal auditing is a lot of talking to people.

00:11:40 Olivia Gallagher

I think it has a lot to do with building those connections and listening to what people are saying and

00:11:46 Olivia Gallagher

understanding what they're saying, like the processes and stuff like that.

00:11:49 The IIA

Priya noticed the difference in pace.

00:11:51 Priya Bhatt

We did our own risk assessment, a whole process.

00:11:54 Priya Bhatt

And for me, that was a lot of computer work.

00:11:57 Priya Bhatt

That was something that we would be speed running, not in real life though.

00:12:01 Priya Bhatt

But in real life, when I keep talking to all these professionals that are already in the field of internal audit, they say that you have to talk to the client.

00:12:10 Priya Bhatt

You need to make sure that you are

00:12:13 Priya Bhatt

putting as much effort into building a connection with the client while also remaining independent.

00:12:19 Priya Bhatt

So I think the time gap, I think the time it takes to complete a classwork between what it takes to do an audit assessment in real life, I think that definitely was a big difference for me.

00:12:31 The IIA

Moises is waiting for the work to leave the page.

00:12:34 Moises Gutierrez

Real world experiences.

00:12:36 Moises Gutierrez

I mean, you can't take anything from pen to paper.

00:12:39 Moises Gutierrez

It's easier to send to done, obviously.

00:12:41 Moises Gutierrez

You can just read,

00:12:42 Moises Gutierrez

through papers, through lessons, and think, maybe this just seemed bland to someone who hasn't been active in the field.

00:12:51 Moises Gutierrez

But once you take insight on other people's experiences, it gives you more of a grasp of how everything works and what liberties you can take with such

00:13:04 Moises Gutierrez

lessons you have learned and into the real world basically.

00:13:08 The IIA

Ryan knows why some of that experience must wait.

00:13:11 Ryan Lam

The biggest gap would be it's probably reviewing the different documents that a company can have, which is understandable because it adheres to confidentiality.

00:13:20 Ryan Lam

One of the principles that we as internal auditors has is confidentiality and ensuring that information is only placed where it should be to protect the information for the people.

00:13:30 Ryan Lam

people after all and for the company.

00:13:32 Ryan Lam

So when I get into the work world with internships and being an internal auditor later, I really want to see that chance to really get to review documents and to be able to associate them between different departments.

00:13:44 Ryan Lam

But that will be practical experience that I learn later on.

00:13:47 Ryan Lam

Overall, the case studies are still a great way to be able to get an introduction into that experience first.

00:13:53 The IIA

Omar's thinking about what happens when the industry changes.

00:13:56 Omar Ontiveros

What hasn't quite clicked yet is

00:13:58 Omar Ontiveros

how you can take maybe one procedure or one way to look at an issue and sort of mold it into different industries.

00:14:07 Omar Ontiveros

Like let's say you're going into healthcare, banking, they're all these different check marks that you have to hit off on your list.

00:14:13 Omar Ontiveros

But how do you do that for...

00:14:15 Omar Ontiveros

When you have to go from one company to the other, how do you make yourself this sort of chameleon that can sort of mold to whatever assignment you're tasked to?

00:14:23 The IIA

Sarab had already crossed from school into the job.

00:14:26 The IIA

Even then, one distinction took time to understand.

00:14:29 Saurabh Kshatri

When I worked for internal audit, I felt that maybe.

00:14:33 Saurabh Kshatri

I didn't understand the difference between why internal audit was getting so much of preference rather than the external audit.

00:14:39 Saurabh Kshatri

But as soon as I started working more and more and more, I understood that internal audit also plays the same amount of role that an external audit plays.

00:14:48 The IIA

Some parts of the profession only appear when information is incomplete, the industry is unfamiliar, and another person is deciding how much to tell you.

00:14:59 The IIA

The next gap is harder to simulate.

00:15:02 The IIA

A finding can be sound and still change a person's life.

00:15:05 The IIA

Priya first encountered that tension in an ethics course.

00:15:08 Priya Bhatt

One of my coursework that I did, or one of the courses that I took, was accounting ethics.

00:15:14 Priya Bhatt

That course really taught me that when it comes to internal audit, you need to make very hard decisions.

00:15:21 Priya Bhatt

You need to know when to report to somebody.

00:15:23 Priya Bhatt

You need to know even when to

00:15:27 Priya Bhatt

I guess, see if you're going to be toeing the line between being independent and not independent, because that is very important in the field of internal audit.

00:15:36 Priya Bhatt

And just in general, using your judgment properly, which can mean different things to different people.

00:15:43 Priya Bhatt

But in this field, it can get more objective the more into the process you go, because you need to make sure that you're serving your client or your firm, but you're also making sure that your work

00:15:56 Priya Bhatt

you have integrity, that you are producing quality work in your line of in this field.

00:16:02 The IIA

Olivia heard it in a story from practice.

00:16:04 Olivia Gallagher

They did result in somebody being let go.

00:16:07 Olivia Gallagher

And I think that made me kind of realize I was like, what we do matters.

00:16:11 Olivia Gallagher

And it matters to not just the business, but the people who work for the business.

00:16:14 The IIA

Priya didn't dismiss the discomfort.

00:16:17 Priya Bhatt

If it's right, it could still lead to a bad consequence for somebody who did commit fraud, but still you think to yourself, yes, they committed fraud.

00:16:26 Priya Bhatt

But at the same time, you can still not like the outcome necessarily.

00:16:30 The IIA

Omar widened the frame.

00:16:31 Omar Ontiveros

It's something that maybe the textbooks don't emphasize as much, but your work as an internal auditor directly affects the people that work there, either for better or for worse, you know, depending on how good well their, you know, their controls are doing.

00:16:45 Omar Ontiveros

So really, it just shows me like how important that

00:16:48 Omar Ontiveros

work is and that it shouldn't be taken lightly.

00:16:51 Omar Ontiveros

To some people in general, it may sound like a small piece of the puzzle, but I really do think that without it, you can't finish the rest.

00:16:57 The IIA

The weight of the work isn't making them turn away.

00:17:00 The IIA

It's showing them what they still need to learn.

00:17:02 The IIA

For Davani, one of those lessons is how to enter a room where leadership is waiting.

00:17:07 Dhvani Shah

I think presenting to a leadership might intimidate me.

00:17:10 Dhvani Shah

I would say so like going in and then like presenting in front of them and they are giving their precious time to us.

00:17:15 Dhvani Shah

I feel like that would be a little bit scary.

00:17:18 Dhvani Shah

But interesting too.

00:17:19 The IIA

Omar thinks about credibility before he walks into the room.

00:17:22 Omar Ontiveros

I think starting off, I definitely want to make sure that I am well informed on every aspect of a business.

00:17:30 Omar Ontiveros

And I never want to walk into any room not knowing what I'm getting myself into.

00:17:36 Omar Ontiveros

So I think that it's really just

00:17:39 Omar Ontiveros

making sure that I'm able to articulate myself in a way that fosters growth and relationships, but also while being taken seriously.

00:17:48 Omar Ontiveros

So I think learning to really build rapport amongst my peers is something that I still need to learn.

00:17:55 The IIA

Olivia is less specific about the fear and more honest about the size.

00:17:59 Olivia Gallagher

I'm not gonna lie, a lot of it intimidates me, but none of it's gonna stop me.

00:18:03 Olivia Gallagher

So there is a lot going on in the accounting field.

00:18:08 Olivia Gallagher

and a lot of professionals leaving, a lot of people staying.

00:18:12 Olivia Gallagher

And I'm more intimidated about, because it's very, very new.

00:18:16 Olivia Gallagher

I'm a junior.

00:18:16 Olivia Gallagher

I haven't, I've only done two internships.

00:18:18 Olivia Gallagher

So kind of, so I'm not rambling.

00:18:20 Olivia Gallagher

I would say the amount I don't know yet kind of is intimidating.

00:18:24 The IIA

Moises keeps coming back to what he hopes confidence will look like.

00:18:28 Moises Gutierrez

Anybody honestly who wants to pursue this career, whether it's internal auditing, CPA, or whatever accounting profession they want to pursue.

00:18:35 Moises Gutierrez

What I like to see, what I want to shadow, and I want most results I want to see out of them is confidence, mostly confidence, being yourself, being curious.

00:18:45 Moises Gutierrez

I mean, just taking everything with a grain of salt, but also thinking extensively about what you're doing and just be yourself.

00:18:54 The IIA

So they're not afraid of the work itself.

00:18:56 The IIA

They understand that credibility has to be built.

00:19:03 The IIA

So we asked a practical question.

00:19:05 The IIA

If you could shadow someone in the profession for just one day, what would you watch?

00:19:10 The IIA

Olivia started with the room itself.

00:19:12 Olivia Gallagher

Them interacting with their clients.

00:19:14 Olivia Gallagher

I think right now I haven't had that business kind of professionalism talking to people.

00:19:20 Olivia Gallagher

It's always been very casual for me.

00:19:22 Olivia Gallagher

And I think I would like to

00:19:25 Olivia Gallagher

watch that in real life and see how in a business world, how you would respond to a client or how you would talk to a client, converse.

00:19:31 Olivia Gallagher

You know what I mean?

00:19:32 The IIA

Omar focused on the questions.

00:19:34 Omar Ontiveros

I think I'd want to see them shadowing the actual processes.

00:19:38 Omar Ontiveros

I'd love to see them do a whole walkthrough and the types of questions, the interviews that they're doing.

00:19:43 Omar Ontiveros

Like I said, I'm a people person, but maybe I don't know the exact questions to ask yet.

00:19:47 Omar Ontiveros

Learning how they pick other people's brains without them even realizing that they're doing so

00:19:52 Omar Ontiveros

I just find that fascinating.

00:19:53 Omar Ontiveros

It's almost like a mix of psychology into the effect.

00:19:56 The IIA

Ryan wanted the whole process.

00:19:58 Ryan Lam

What I would most like to see from an internal audit internship would be to be able to see the processes in motion, to be able to understand what it looks like with theory and practice.

00:20:10 Ryan Lam

What we learn in the classroom is, say, an engagement plan, for example, an audit program.

00:20:15 Ryan Lam

We learn the different lists, but it can be a little difficult to see it in the outside.

00:20:19 Ryan Lam

With an internship and shadowing, I definitely would

00:20:23 Ryan Lam

like to see how it works with the different processes and the papers as they are applied.

00:20:28 Ryan Lam

I'd like to see an audit program in action on the floor.

00:20:31 Ryan Lam

I'd like to see an audit plan in terms of the whole scope of an organization, and I believe this would be most valuable with job shadowing.

00:20:38 Ryan Lam

My instructor has done a great job in making that bridge possible, and that was one of the reasons I went into internal auditing, because it's the applicable side of job shadowing that I'd really like to see.

00:20:49 The IIA

Davani and Sara both chose the moment of finding has to leave the.

00:20:52 Dhvani Shah

I would want to see how they are getting ready to present some kind of fraud that they have found.

00:20:58 Dhvani Shah

I would love to see that being presented and how they approach the language and everything, even when they are talking to the leadership, because that's who are getting impacted at the end and how they are communicating to the board of members.

00:21:09 Saurabh Kshatri

I feel like representing someone who doesn't have much knowledge about the financial statements, like if you're explaining to a layperson or might be explaining to a person who doesn't have much knowledge about the audit or financials,

00:21:20 Saurabh Kshatri

I feel like I would love to watch that to help explain a layperson about any findings that we do.

00:21:26 The IIA

Priya chose a person rather than a process.

00:21:29 Priya Bhatt

I would want to shadow the president of IIA.

00:21:32 Priya Bhatt

I want to see what he does and also how he came to be, what his demeanor is like or what is his work ethic like, which is very clearly, he works very hard because he got to this position.

00:21:43 Priya Bhatt

But at the same time, I'm super curious to see what are the small things that make him so successful.

00:21:50 The IIA

Together, the answers form a practical curriculum, conversations, walkthroughs, working papers, difficult findings, and the judgment behind them.

00:22:00 The IIA

They're not asking for the profession to become more simple.

00:22:03 The IIA

They're asking to see its complexity up close.

00:22:10 The IIA

By the end of the interviews, every path led back to a person.

00:22:14 The IIA

Omar didn't start college looking for a mentor.

00:22:17 The IIA

For a while, he didn't think he needed one.

00:22:19 Omar Ontiveros

I think it's key.

00:22:21 Omar Ontiveros

You don't really realize how important it is until you start having those important conversations and hearing those success stories from other people who have had mentors.

00:22:31 Omar Ontiveros

You know, when I first started off, I thought, I can do it.

00:22:34 Omar Ontiveros

I'm very self-sufficient.

00:22:35 Omar Ontiveros

I didn't realize the need that I had to sort of rely on others to help me make those connections and eventually, hopefully, turn into a mentor down the line for somebody else that needs that guidance.

00:22:47 Omar Ontiveros

I had all these misconceptions of what accounting was.

00:22:50 Omar Ontiveros

Like I mentioned, it was just tax or audit that I was looking at.

00:22:53 Omar Ontiveros

And I thought, well, this is my life.

00:22:54 Omar Ontiveros

But no, mentorship taught me that there are so many other.

00:22:58 Omar Ontiveros

routes and niches that you can really get into and internal audit wouldn't even be on my mind if it wasn't through my mentorship.

00:23:05 The IIA

Ryan's list is longer.

00:23:07 Ryan Lam

Mentorship is very important to me.

00:23:09 Ryan Lam

I've had its many important mentors and some of them include my instructor, of course, who I've mentioned from before, my academic chair and also the head of the IIA Calgary chapter and many of his colleagues there.

00:23:23 Ryan Lam

They were the ones who introduced me to not only internal audit, but the different aspects of an internal

00:23:28 Ryan Lam

audit and what it means to be an auditor.

00:23:31 The IIA

When Omar gives advice to students, he starts with the time he thinks he's lost.

00:23:35 Omar Ontiveros

I think learning how to speak to not only your peers, but also the people that, the professionals that come visit your school.

00:23:41 Omar Ontiveros

Don't be afraid to ask questions.

00:23:43 Omar Ontiveros

You know, I think I started off asking like really maybe open-ended, but like very vague sort of questions.

00:23:50 Omar Ontiveros

And I started learning how professionals respond and how a professional speaks.

00:23:54 Omar Ontiveros

and realizing that they know your students.

00:23:56 Omar Ontiveros

They know that you don't know what you don't know.

00:23:58 Omar Ontiveros

So it's a really great time to just maybe do trial and error and get involved and make sure that you're doing everything that you can outside of just going to class and going home.

00:24:08 The IIA

Priya makes this same point in fewer words.

00:24:11 Priya Bhatt

Just talk to people.

00:24:12 Priya Bhatt

Just talk to people.

00:24:13 Priya Bhatt

I feel like the idea and that concept of talking to people has died down since COVID because everyone maybe lost their social skills.

00:24:22 Priya Bhatt

They didn't have as much exposure.

00:24:24 Priya Bhatt

So the idea of just being outgoing, talking to people, maybe don't be so weird, but just kind of be like whimsy, have fun.

00:24:34 Priya Bhatt

And

00:24:35 Priya Bhatt

also have boundaries.

00:24:36 The IIA

Ryan's advice begins with the part students often try hardest to avoid.

00:24:40 Ryan Lam

It is necessary to make mistakes, and especially with mistakes, sometimes it can be humiliating with them.

00:24:49 Ryan Lam

There are a number of cases where I wish I could have done something better overall, but the most important part of being a student is being able to learn from these experiences.

00:24:59 Ryan Lam

Even if we make the mistakes, it's okay so long as we learn from them and be able to improve.

00:25:05 The IIA

Then we turned the question around and asked, what advice would you give to internal auditors already in the profession?

00:25:12 Ryan Lam

Don't be afraid to make a difference.

00:25:14 Ryan Lam

When making a difference, sometimes it is necessary to take risks and sometimes there may be pushback too.

00:25:20 Ryan Lam

But it is always better to take those risks earlier on than later on because that's what it takes to make a difference.

00:25:28 Ryan Lam

We'll never be able to make a difference in life or in business without being able to say what's on our mind and also

00:25:34 Ryan Lam

also to be able to make life better for others.

00:25:37 Ryan Lam

That's what I really believe in, and that's what the IIA is about.

00:25:40 The IIA

These students are still learning the frameworks, the vocabulary, and the steps of an engagement, but they already see what makes the work human.

00:25:50 The IIA

Internal audit asks people to listen closely, explain clearly, stay curious, and act when the answer is uncomfortable.

00:25:58 The IIA

And for every student in this episode, the profession became visible because someone took the time to show it.

00:26:04 The IIA

We recorded these conversations in the spring when Priya, Omar, and Sarab were about to graduate.

00:26:10 The IIA

Olivia, Ryan, Moises, and Davani are heading back to campus, where somebody in a classroom or a club is about to discover this profession the same way they did.

00:26:22 The IIA

This has been All Things Internal Audit.

00:26:26 The IIA

If you like this podcast, please subscribe and rate us.

00:26:29 The IIA

You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

00:26:31 The IIA

You can also catch other episodes on YouTube or at the IIA.org.

00:26:36 The IIA

That's THEIIA.org.