00:00:02 The IIA
The Institute of Internal Auditors presents All Things Internal Audit.
00:00:06 The IIA
In this special episode, Anthony Pugliese sits down with IIA Global Board Chair, Stacey Schabel, to discuss her leadership theme for the year, risk-focused, future-ready.
00:00:17 The IIA
Drawing on more than 25 years of experience in audit and risk leadership, Schabel shares her vision for helping internal auditors navigate an increasingly complex risk environment shaped by AI, cyber threats, geopolitical uncertainty, and rapid technology change.
00:00:34 The IIA
The conversation explores the evolving role of internal audit, the importance of developing future-ready skills, and what success looks like for the profession in the year ahead.
00:00:46 Anthony Pugliese
Stacey, you've held a variety of leadership roles across the IIA, and you've spent more than 25 years in risk and audit leadership.
00:00:54 Anthony Pugliese
So how have those experiences shaped your vision for the profession and for what you'd like to see the IIA achieve during your terms?
00:01:02 Anthony Pugliese
That's a big question.
00:01:03 Anthony Pugliese
So what do you think?
00:01:04 Stacey Schabel
So I spent almost 25 years now leading in audit and risk management roles across global and US public financial services companies.
00:01:14 Stacey Schabel
Before transitioning into my current global role in operational risk leadership at RGA, I spent more than a dozen years as a chief audit executive, most recently at Jackson Financial.
00:01:26 Stacey Schabel
And I've been involved in the IIA for many, many years and got absolutely hooked when I got the opportunity to help other financial services leaders and work closely with them to write practice guides on global topics that really impact a lot of us and the profession.
00:01:45 Stacey Schabel
as a whole, really helping auditors, regulators, and leaders understand really complex topics and how to attack them and really help their companies from their roles.
00:01:56 Stacey Schabel
And so since doing that, I've just really loved serving the IIA and our global membership that spans almost 200 countries and territories across the globe.
00:02:08 Anthony Pugliese
Stacey, every year, as you now know, the global board chair selects a core theme
00:02:13 Anthony Pugliese
that is in line with our overall strategic plan, but something that would guide the terms and objectives of the year that you'll serve as Global Chair.
00:02:21 Anthony Pugliese
If I could, could you tell us a bit about the theme you've selected, why you selected it, and how you think it'll guide your focus for the year ahead?
00:02:29 Stacey Schabel
So I'm really excited, Anthony, to your question, coming into the Global Chair role and what my priorities are for the year, given my background and experience, I've chosen the theme of risk-focused
00:02:43 Stacey Schabel
future ready.
00:02:45 Stacey Schabel
And I really think that reflects a defining challenge and the biggest opportunity really facing the internal audit profession today, as well as risk professionals.
00:02:57 Stacey Schabel
I mean, the risk landscape as we see it is just fundamentally changing.
00:03:03 Stacey Schabel
If we pick up any newspaper or listen to anything going on externally, risk to our companies and our environments
00:03:13 Stacey Schabel
are moving faster and becoming more interconnected.
00:03:16 Stacey Schabel
And they're increasingly driven by technology and AI and cyber threats and geopolitical uncertainty around the world, really creating rapid disruption for all of us.
00:03:31 Stacey Schabel
And as internal auditors, we can really help our companies and our environments, but we need to evolve just as quickly.
00:03:41 Stacey Schabel
So really thinking about being risk-focused, I think, is important.
00:03:45 Stacey Schabel
It ensures internal audit is aligned to the risks that matter most to our companies and our stakeholders.
00:03:53 Stacey Schabel
It means helping our stakeholders anticipate emerging risks, those things that are coming at us.
00:03:59 Stacey Schabel
and really strengthen our company's resilience so that when something bad does happen, we can recover quickly and still be successful.
00:04:08 Stacey Schabel
And then being future ready really means helping that our internal audit profession be prepared for what's next, making sure we can embrace technology, leverage AI, develop those new skills that we need,
00:04:24 Stacey Schabel
and really expand our role beyond backward-looking assurance to being there at the table with our strategic insight and foresight.
00:04:34 Stacey Schabel
So really just want to position our internal audit teams and our profession as that trusted, risk-focused advisor that we really should be to our companies, given our view of all the things happening across our organizations
00:04:52 Stacey Schabel
and the external environment and how that impacts us.
00:04:56 Anthony Pugliese
Excellent.
00:04:56 Anthony Pugliese
Thank you, Stacy.
00:04:57 Anthony Pugliese
And I couldn't agree more on the theme on risk.
00:04:59 Anthony Pugliese
And as we approach 2027, we're going to have a whole new strategic plan to look at and risk is going to be pulled out front and center, as well as some new exciting changes on our committee front where we're going to be having a new GRC council to help guide us through a lot of the questions we have on this and also the deliverables we'll have for members to help them
00:05:19 Anthony Pugliese
if they're already doing this work or if they want to become involved with it.
00:05:22 Anthony Pugliese
So thank you.
00:05:23 Anthony Pugliese
Couldn't agree more.
00:05:24 Anthony Pugliese
If I may, let me ask you another question.
00:05:26 Anthony Pugliese
As you begin your term as global chair, what opportunities are you most excited about?
00:05:32 Anthony Pugliese
And I'll add to that, what challenges do you believe will help shape the future of the profession over the next year?
00:05:39 Stacey Schabel
Yeah, I do think that we're entering a very exciting period in the history of the internal audit profession.
00:05:48 Stacey Schabel
I think our organizations, leadership teams, boards really need us as internal audit professionals and the view that we bring more than ever.
00:06:00 Stacey Schabel
They're looking at how to successfully navigate all these challenges that are coming at them.
00:06:06 Stacey Schabel
That's A dimension, cyber, AI, operational resilience.
00:06:10 Stacey Schabel
If you add to that kind of third party risk and things happening in our third and 4th parties, regulatory change,
00:06:17 Stacey Schabel
and really that strategic uncertainty, them using their internal audit teams in a more strategic way to really connect those dots is increasingly valuable to them.
00:06:31 Stacey Schabel
From a challenge perspective, I think our biggest challenge as a profession is the same challenge they face, right?
00:06:38 Stacey Schabel
It's really keeping pace with change.
00:06:41 Stacey Schabel
The gap between
00:06:43 Stacey Schabel
where you would say risk lives and where audit has traditionally focused is widening, right?
00:06:49 Stacey Schabel
So we need to be in that strategic risk space, really helping them attack those challenges.
00:06:56 Stacey Schabel
And we need to adapt our skills, our methodologies and mindsets.
00:07:01 Stacey Schabel
As you mentioned, Anthony, some of those key focuses that are coming out this year
00:07:06 Stacey Schabel
to remain relevant and be extremely valuable to our companies and our stakeholders.
00:07:13 Anthony Pugliese
That's awesome.
00:07:14 Anthony Pugliese
Could agree more.
00:07:15 Anthony Pugliese
A lot of exciting opportunities and challenges.
00:07:17 Anthony Pugliese
And who knows how the whole geopolitical process will play out and what that presents is in terms of challenge and opportunity.
00:07:24 Anthony Pugliese
We'll see how it all goes, but I'll be there with you.
00:07:26 Anthony Pugliese
Stacey, you and I both have a bit of a passion around the development of talent for the profession, particularly the future leaders of the profession.
00:07:34 Anthony Pugliese
We have a few things at IIA that we've done
00:07:37 Anthony Pugliese
to help members, including Vision University and some other things that we've put out there.
00:07:40 Anthony Pugliese
But what advice would you give to emerging internal audit professionals who want to grow their influence and also prepare?
00:07:47 Anthony Pugliese
for bigger leadership roles in their career.
00:07:50 Stacey Schabel
That's a great question, Anthony.
00:07:52 Stacey Schabel
I do love mentoring younger professionals.
00:07:55 Stacey Schabel
I had some fantastic mentors in my career thus far and just really think it's valuable and it's super rewarding from both sides of the table, either as someone being mentored or the mentor themselves.
00:08:11 Stacey Schabel
You get to learn about what's really happening with individuals at different points in their careers.
00:08:16 Stacey Schabel
For emerging
00:08:17 Stacey Schabel
leaders, I would say stay curious.
00:08:20 Stacey Schabel
I think the most successful auditors, and I would just say professionals in general, are lifelong learners.
00:08:27 Stacey Schabel
If you're really interested in what's happening and understanding how to make your organization better,
00:08:35 Stacey Schabel
I think it will serve you well, right?
00:08:37 Stacey Schabel
Because you're curious and you're constantly wanting to learn more.
00:08:41 Stacey Schabel
Second, look to develop that deep understanding of risk, not just audit techniques.
00:08:48 Stacey Schabel
Some of the things that I've done, it's for instance, I've operated in the financial services realm.
00:08:52 Stacey Schabel
So I have a subscription to Bloomberg and I look at what's happening out there, external environment every day.
00:09:00 Stacey Schabel
I get emails from them.
00:09:01 Stacey Schabel
I can stream Bloomberg all day long.
00:09:04 Stacey Schabel
And it really gives you that perspective of what are those risks externally as well as in those things that your company might be facing.
00:09:14 Stacey Schabel
And helps you think about how does your organization create
00:09:18 Stacey Schabel
value.
00:09:19 Stacey Schabel
How does their strategy work and what risks matter the most to them?
00:09:24 Stacey Schabel
And third, I'd say embrace technology and AI.
00:09:28 Stacey Schabel
These tools, they are transforming how we work.
00:09:31 Stacey Schabel
They are here to stay.
00:09:32 Stacey Schabel
And so I think as the next generation, you definitely have an opportunity to lead that transformation and to really make sure that you're a key valuable component of that change for your organization.
00:09:46 Stacey Schabel
And then seek those mentors and become a mentor yourself.
00:09:51 Stacey Schabel
Like I said, you can learn tons from being on both sides of the table.
00:09:56 Stacey Schabel
I mean, I've learned, as I mentioned, some of my most important lessons from those people that were willing to invest in me.
00:10:04 Stacey Schabel
And I've also learned a ton from those different individuals that I've mentored, and I got to hear their perspectives and the things that they view as important and how we support those leaders of the
00:10:16 Stacey Schabel
the future.
00:10:18 Stacey Schabel
Most importantly, remember that your influence is earned through credibility, relationships, and trust.
00:10:26 Stacey Schabel
Those technical skills can get you in the room.
00:10:29 Stacey Schabel
They may get you the job based on your resume, but those trusted relationships, teamwork, and authenticity really help you make a difference as an internal auditor and a leader in your organizations and your teams.
00:10:45 Anthony Pugliese
That's awesome.
00:10:46 Anthony Pugliese
We recently concluded some research with our Internal Audit Foundation on what constitutes a good internal audit leader.
00:10:53 Anthony Pugliese
And you've hit on so many of the points.
00:10:54 Anthony Pugliese
And I know you haven't read that research.
00:10:56 Anthony Pugliese
We haven't published it yet.
00:10:58 Anthony Pugliese
That's good.
00:10:58 Anthony Pugliese
But staying curious and just the embracing of technology, just two of the things you said just really jump out as very much in tow with that.
00:11:06 Anthony Pugliese
And encouraging all the people under you to do the same thing.
00:11:09 Anthony Pugliese
And
00:11:10 Anthony Pugliese
it starts to stick over time.
00:11:11 Anthony Pugliese
So I completely agree with you.
00:11:13 Anthony Pugliese
One more question.
00:11:15 Anthony Pugliese
When I think when your term concludes, what would success look like for you as chair?
00:11:20 Anthony Pugliese
So you're becoming immediate past chair a year from now, what would you look back on and say, success happened?
00:11:27 Anthony Pugliese
What happened to make you say that?
00:11:30 Stacey Schabel
Oh, that's a great question, Anthony.
00:11:31 Stacey Schabel
If I can look back and I can see that internal auditors around the world are more confident in their abilities,
00:11:39 Stacey Schabel
really to address those emerging risks and are more recognized as strategic partners to their organizations who are critical to their success.
00:11:50 Stacey Schabel
So I would like members to feel like the IIA helped prepare them for that future.
00:11:55 Stacey Schabel
And as you mentioned, Anthony, there's tons of things in the pipeline and that have already been happening related to guidance and training and advocacy.
00:12:06 Stacey Schabel
standards, and even the professional connections, right, that the IIA helps you make as an internal audit professional.
00:12:14 Stacey Schabel
Also, if at the end of my term, we've helped advance even more the AI and digital readiness, which I would encourage listeners, if you haven't checked out the AI and digital trainings and tools that the IIA has on their website, go check them out.
00:12:30 Stacey Schabel
They're really, really interesting and impactful.
00:12:33 Stacey Schabel
I also think strengthening the integrated assurance and the Three Lines model across companies, like making sure we're using it in practice, would be a big win.
00:12:43 Stacey Schabel
And if we've inspired that next generation of leaders,
00:12:46 Stacey Schabel
right?
00:12:47 Stacey Schabel
We've inspired those either mid-career individuals that want to do something new or those new and up-and-coming professionals.
00:12:56 Stacey Schabel
We've inspired them around the value they can provide their organizations and the really valuable career they can get from being in the internal audit space.
00:13:06 Stacey Schabel
That would be a big win.
00:13:08 Stacey Schabel
I mean, overall, we want our profession to be stronger, more relevant, and better positioned.
00:13:15 Stacey Schabel
than ever before, really to help, as I mentioned at the beginning, our organizations, our leaders and boards really navigate those very complex and even faster moving futures that are out there for us.
00:13:30 Anthony Pugliese
Awesome.
00:13:31 Anthony Pugliese
And one last question, if I may, and I'm going to, a little bit more of a deeper thought question maybe.
00:13:36 Anthony Pugliese
The author Maya Angelou used to always say, people may not remember what you said, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
00:13:43 Anthony Pugliese
So what impact would you most like members around the world to feel from your leadership over the next year?
00:13:50 Stacey Schabel
Oh, it's great.
00:13:50 Stacey Schabel
I always want people to feel valued, right?
00:13:54 Stacey Schabel
That we really do need all of these different perspectives, these different voices that are out there across the globe to help our profession be successful.
00:14:09 Stacey Schabel
We really need
00:14:10 Stacey Schabel
to value all those different perspectives and the different ways of operating across the globe as we figure out how our profession can add the most impact.
00:14:23 Stacey Schabel
So there's not just one way to do that.
00:14:25 Stacey Schabel
And I think the IIA has a lot of great initiatives that are out there that help as we look at different regions of the world and how they need to accomplish things and add value, that we can do that.
00:14:38 Stacey Schabel
And I really want each of those auditors and each of those different regions or the different professions
00:14:46 Stacey Schabel
or the different company focuses to feel valued by the IAA and that their voice is heard and that it's recognized and that we're trying to help them be successful.
00:14:59 Anthony Pugliese
That's awesome.
00:14:59 Anthony Pugliese
You're going to have quite a year.
00:15:00 Anthony Pugliese
I can't wait to work with you, Stacey, over the course of the next year.
00:15:03 Anthony Pugliese
And thank you for being here today.
00:15:05 Anthony Pugliese
And thank you for all you've given us today to think about.
00:15:07 Anthony Pugliese
I really appreciate it.
00:15:08 Anthony Pugliese
Thanks, everybody.
00:15:09 The IIA
Thank you.
00:15:11 The IIA
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00:15:14 The IIA
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00:15:17 The IIA
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00:15:21 The IIA
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